Comments on My Teen Mania Experience: A Man's Lust: Whose Fault is It?

This is works guys. Works. This is NOT how salva...

2012-01-20T23:42:21.134-06:00

This is works guys. Works. This is NOT how salvation through Christ works. Our coming to Christ is not based on works and our keeping salvation is not based on works. This has nothing to do with your fellowship with Christ. In fact, Jesus hates the self-righteousness of these men who are falsely teaching that works make you worthy in the sight of God. Your belief/faith in Him makes you right in the sight of God. I am so sadden not only by the physical and emotional abuse that is bestowed upon these young people both men and women, but the spiritual abuse is horrifying. How many think that they have to work their way to the Lord? How many think if only I say things right; wear the right thing; marry the right person; do the right thing, etc. will make me justified in the eyes of our Savior? Hogwash!! and shame on you TM!!

I am so sorry anonymous.

anonymous... how very, very painful.... I remember...

2012-01-20T18:21:44.562-06:00

anonymous... how very, very painful....
I remember hearing similar stories of married hell from about interns who graduated more than 15 years ago.... absolute caveman behavior / forced "submission" in the name of Christianity. Married each other straight out of the internship and obviously what was learned there in no way promoted "loving your wife as Christ loved the Church & gave Himself up for her." This shit has been preached to interns even pre-Hasz era.

Anonymous - My heart hurts for you. I'm so sor...

2012-01-20T14:34:18.896-06:00

Anonymous - My heart hurts for you. I'm so sorry for your situation.

Seriously, This teaching is the single most horrib...

2012-01-20T14:20:36.128-06:00

Seriously, This teaching is the single most horrible teaching I've ever heard. I used to say that I don't blame TM for my life turning out so sucky but this teaching is a major MAJOR reason why life sucks for me now.

I have married a man who whole heartedly believes I should be all the things on TM's list. IT is hell. I can't believe that they don't see the PRISON they are throwing women into by teaching this crap. I am saddened that I ever heard the words AQUIRE THE FIRE. I am saddened that I ever looked up to women like KL. I am upset that women have looked up to me as I've preached this junk as well.

There is a huge double standard. I remember being told that if we were tempted to look at the boys at the pool, then we should not go to the pool. My year girls even went as far as wearing shorts and T-shirts over their bathing suits. But the boys could remain shirtless. I also remember not getting in the water for fear that my shirt would be to clingy and show my bust or something.

I still get a chuckle about the "allows other...

2012-01-17T01:55:31.313-06:00

I still get a chuckle about the "allows other women to speak into her wardrobe." Well there went any doors, so the was kind of no stopping it.

I feel like this was handed out to us in a woman's meeting my year.

I would like to re-write those "Ways A Woman ...

2012-01-16T19:11:20.105-06:00

I would like to re-write those "Ways A Woman Acts On Campus" points. It's hard for me to believe that BB felt good about teaching those things.

All of this. "I remember being pressured int...

2012-01-16T18:00:06.339-06:00

All of this.

"I remember being pressured into attending Woman at the Well because I'd been in a relationship, that had gotten mildly physical and in which I was the aggressor, before attending the HA."

It makes me angry to hear this crap again, it's crippled me for such a long time. The purse strap that emphasizes your breasts crap, tank tops of any kind crap, the "women can't be sexually aggressive" crap... it's all crap and they preach it like we aren't good people and Christ can't have made us to desire sex because we are just women.... oh it makes me angry to think that normal, healthy, young women are still hearing this over 10 years later.

This teaching from the HA has directly distorted my self-image and sexuality for too long. But not any more- Christ came to seek and save even women who like sex : )

Fitz...I'm totally stunned by that. I don'...

2012-01-16T17:54:14.849-06:00

Fitz...I'm totally stunned by that. I don't think I've ever heard it expressed so clearly. It succinctly exemplifies precisely what is wrong with TM's philosophies, teachings, etc.

We are not guardians for anyone except ourselves. To put that responsibility on others is can turn abusive. Who is to say what "modest" is? Every culture has their own standard. There are many standards within sub-cultures, too. Who's to say which is right? If you are comfortable in your own skin and you are not publicly exposing yourself, then I don't get what the problem is. I personally have no issues with either of the sexes going topless in appropriate situations, but I digress. Having women change something about themselves in order to make a man's life easier is sexism at it's finest. I can only wonder how else this philosophy comes into play in a hundred different subtle ways.

This is what happens we have parachurch organizati...

2012-01-16T17:12:20.425-06:00

This is what happens we have parachurch organizations get into our bedrooms. This a overhyped, works-based legalistic way to control sinful desires. Jimmy Swaggart and many others use to preach hell, fire and brimstone about lustful desires, yet were engaging in these same desires.
Keep your eyes on Jesus for He is our Perfect Counselor and He is the only One who is able to control any sinful desires we may be engaged in.

Man. Just reading that list (of the perfect tm wom...

2012-01-16T16:36:10.784-06:00

Man. Just reading that list (of the perfect tm woman) left my head spinning! There are so many rules. I find the top 5 ALARMING.
She's an amazing Christian who put's Christ above everything else, (IMO- to live IS Christ. Not a number on a check list. Though I doubt teen mania will EVER understand that one.)
Who isn't too close to her friends, or really, anyone... No humans. Not even her parents.
And the last line, after they've ripped her to shreds yet AGAIN, she of course trusts her leadership.

Excellent post, RA. This describes a completely dy...

2012-01-16T14:03:03.500-06:00

Excellent post, RA. This describes a completely dysfunctional way of looking at human sexuality which degrades both the men and the women, albeit it in somewhat different ways. Once again, the HA chooses to take a legalistic approach rather that what I would think of as the genuinely Christian one, which is that sexuality, like the rest of our personhood, is best experienced in the context of loving empathy for our fellow human beings.

*they ever found themselves...

2012-01-16T13:38:50.147-06:00

*they ever found themselves...

ALL OF THIS. I also remember the double standard t...

2012-01-16T13:36:24.722-06:00

ALL OF THIS. I also remember the double standard that went along with this. In one of the discussions on purity and standards of modesty that I remember hearing about from Dave, he had men and women raise their hands for different things that would affect their ability to keep their thoughts pure. Among other things, he asked the men to raise their hands if they were visually stimulated and the majority (though not all) raised their hands. He used this to stress the importance of modesty among the women on campus and the reasons behind the rules of public dress, especially the need for women to wear shirts and shorts over their bathing suits. Then he asked the women how many of them were visually stimulated. Not the majority, though still quite a few raised their hands. He told them that the pool and the court were places where the men were allowed to be shirtless and if that were a problem for them it was their responsibility to avoid those places.

The message about lust being a woman's responsibility was really two fold. Not only were women responsible for men's arousal but their own arousal, unless falling into a very narrow window, was not only their fault but treated as though it were unnatural. I remember being pressured into attending Woman at the Well because I'd been in a relationship, that had gotten mildly physical and in which I was the aggressor, before attending the HA. Men, even if they were expected to deal with it in a Godly way, were expected to experience some sexual desire. Women were not supposed to experience sexual desires outside of wanting to someday fulfill their husbands sexual appetite and if, God forbid, they ever found yourself aroused they'd better get themselves to Woman at the Well because there was something wrong with them.

Yes, yes, yes. This is something I've been bat...

2012-01-16T11:20:09.119-06:00

Yes, yes, yes. This is something I've been battling for years. Thankfully, I now feel free to wear my purse across my chest! In all seriousness, though, I wish more people understood this. I actually saw a Youtube video a few weeks ago (one of my friends on Facebook posted it) of a teaching where the male speaker basically told a room full of teenage girls that it "wasn't christian" to wear a bikini.

"But each one is tempted when he is carried a...

2012-01-16T10:31:58.403-06:00

"But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust." --James 1:14

Not "by what someone else wears."

Very well done I would love to see what the HA peo...

2012-01-16T10:29:01.538-06:00

Very well done I would love to see what the HA people think of the proof but I doubt we will ever know.

Bravo for this! It sure would be interesting to se...

2012-01-16T10:02:45.199-06:00

Bravo for this! It sure would be interesting to see Dave's thoughts on this now.... oh wait, we have already seen them. Dave called the women liars, threw and 3 yr old hissy fit, and left the board.

I recall being subjected to this quite frequently. It was always the woman's fault if a male began to have feelings, or began to have impure thoughts... never the male's fault.